By Rob Arndt


DISCLAIMER: While this page is included in the German disc development chronology, the author does not necessarily support this view of how the Haunebu craft came into existence. The Haunebu project of 1935 started BEFORE the Freiburg crash of 1936 and the SS was already working off Nikolai Tesla's known works on broadcast power for aircraft propulsion, which would require something more complicated than any aircraft or helicopter in existence to fly at fantastic speeds. His Electrogravitational disc aircraft design is fairly close to the final Haunebu design. There are no known existing photos of the Freiburg disc, no dimensions known, nor means of non-terrestrial propulsion. Therefore, this article is provisional. You decide what to believe.


The Thule and Vril Gesellschaften (Societies), with technical assistance of the SS Technical Branch, were possibly the first groups in history to attempt the reverse-engineering of a non-terrestrial spacecraft based upon persistent reports of a crashed disc discovered in the Schwarzwald (Black Forest) near Freiburg in 1936.

German writer John von Helsing described the discovery of a crashed disc-shaped object and claims that this revolutionary technology was taken and (combined with the information the Vril Gesellschaft had received through psychic channeling) was incorporated into a joint project called the H-Gerät, or Haunebu disc machine which was initiated in the previous year. Thule financed the effort, Vril guided the direction of development, and the SS Technical Branch built the machine somewhere in NW Germany under the highest security.

It is claimed that from the crashed disc taken to Wewelsburg Castle the SS with Vril guidance developed a new form of propulsion, a field drive of immense power for the Haunebu disc.

Vril was obsessed with the concept of power derived from the “Black Sun” - an invisible eternal light with infinite power not visible to the human eye but existing in what we now call anti-matter. It was called at that time, however, “The Light of the Godhead” and was relentlessly pursued by Vril. The SS Technical Branch E-IV Unit (Entwicklungsstelle 4) was tasked with developing alternative energies by Reichsführer SS Himmler, an occultist himself, so a joint effort was beneficial to everyone involved with the Haunebu projekt.

The Haunebu I was the first of the large German Flugscheiben (Flight Discs) and took to the air with a Tachyonator 7 drive (a.k.a. Thule Triebwerk) in August 1939, just a few weeks prior to the outbreak of World War II. It is believed that this drive was a form of electro-magnetic-gravitic (EMG) type.


Thule Triebwerk Tachyonator 7



Himmler’s strength of occult beliefs and the potential power of both ritual magic and metaphysical scientific experimentation was so great that he ordered construction of many secret chambers below the Wewelsburg Castle, a fortress in Westphalia.

Himmler’s impressive fortress-like personal
Valhalla, Wewelsburg Castle, where the Freiburg disc was reverse-engineered

The ruin was purchased in 1934 and was rebuilt over many years at a cost of an estimated 15 million RM! Dedicated to the occult beliefs of the SS, Himmler formed a mystical "Black Sun Order" on the premises that practiced both ritual ceremonies as well as metaphysical experimentation. This is where the SS Technical Branch originated from with studies in reviving Alchemy and studying the Black Arts. The SS honored the Teutonic Knights and Himmler even constructed a mystical “Hall of the Dead” below the castle’s main banqueting hall where the ashes of his closest “disciples” were to be kept in 12 urns upon their deaths!

Wewelsburg ceremonial chamber



The “Hall of the Dead” consisted of a circular chamber with twelve low stone platforms around its walls. In the center of the room was an worship altar. This alter was the focal point of the room with frantic attempts made by the Order to invoke dark, mystical powers of the “Black Sun”. Twelve “Knight” initiates would stand, one on each of the stone platforms against the walls facing the central altar, and would attempt to channel psychic power to the high priest, who probably was Himmler in person. These SS ceremonies required human blood sacrifice, which was not a problem; the SS concentration camps and prisons were full of them. A small group of sacrificial victims were kept at the fortress for this very purpose.

Black sun wheel worshipped by the SS, DHvSS, Vril and Thule Gesellschaften

Wewelsburg SS Badge


While there is no positive evidence that any “dark powers” were actually released during these Satanic rituals, one thing is certain; if they were not, it wasn’t for the lack of effort. Himmler believed that the rituals helped the German war effort and that upon ultimate victory Wewelsburg would become the next spiritual center of the world.




To this end, Wewelsburg was dedicated to pioneering incredible energies that could be used in the war effort. It was the “Black Sun” concept that gave inspiration for a wide field of technologies considered not only unconventional science but demonic technology in the 1940s: beam weaponry, weather manipulation, both a Cold and Molecular bomb, ion-plasma energy; and of course, the radical disc machines.


When the Freiburg disc was hauled back to Wewelsburg it is claimed to have been scientifically dissected for any and all military value. While Vril and Thule had experimented with an “Otherworld Flight Machine” referred to as the JFM from 1922-24, no inter-dimensional space flight was believed achieved with this machine despite the psychic channeling of Vril Chefin Maria Orsic. Clearly, non-terrestrial influence did not lead to a suitable drive for the early purely German disc…but the crashed Freiburg non-terrestrial technology was something very different - actual hardware. In addition to the SS metaphysical research they also incorporated German quantum theory and the works of Nikolai Tesla into the disc development programs; consequently, such a merging of non-terrestrial and human technology probably led to the Haunebu I.

But even as Thule and Vril had some success with the early 1937-1941 RFZ (Rundflugzeug/Round Aircraft)disc aircraft, it was the Haunebu series of discs that were far superior in the end.

The Freiburg disc is claimed to be the origin of the Tachyonator 7 drive for these machines - the first human product of reverse-engineering of non-terrestrial technology.



Possible "Freiburg" types over Nazi Berlin 1935


Contrast the above with the Tesla-designed "electro gravitanional" disc aircraft

Nazi-Grey connection artwork

Recent years have seen the emergence of a rumour that float around the internet like moths to a flame about a crashed UFO in the Black Forest in 1936 which was spirited away to the dark heart of Nazi Germany. There it was to be dismantled and diligently studied by, it is claimed, the members of the Vril Society. While no historically verifiable evidence for this tale has come to light, the idea of alien technology that has fallen into the hands of a select group, was already the subject of a film in Germany in 1920. Just two years after the defeat of Germany in the First World War, a little known silent film was released. Entitled Algol, it tells the story of a superior extraterrestrial from the Dogstar, who donates incredible technology that enables a wealthy industrialist to enslave the world by this free energy device. Lost for decades, copies of the film have surfaced in recent years.

Hitler's obsession with the occult and astrology is well known - but evidence that his aerospace and rocket scientists were plundering alien technology to build Nazi UFOs has never gripped the public imagination.

Wernher von Braun and the Luftwaffe design teams could have been guided by extraterrestrials, perhaps looting interstellar components from a crashed spaceship.

1936 - Black Forest, Germany

The Vril Society members were supposedly the first group to attempt the back engineering of an extraterrestrial spacecraft.

A German writer, John Von Helsing, describes the discovery of a crashed saucer in the Black Forest, near Freiburg, in 1936 and says that this technology was taken and combined with the information the Vril Society had received through channeling and was made into a further project called the Haunebu.

What the Freiburg disc might have looked like.
It was said to have been smaller than the Haunebu I with a domed top and bottom, but no dimensions are given.
Many have claimed, however, that the SS took the same basic configuration for the Haunebu series.


German aircraft historian Henry Stevens says:

Haunebu I was supposedly the first large flying saucer developed in Germany. According to plans allegedly obtained from classified German SS files, the Haunebu I was approximately seventy-five feet in diameter and probably lifted off for the first time in August 1939, a few weeks before the outbreak of World War II.

Their source of power was the Black Sun, an infinite beam of light which - though invisible to the human eye - exists in anti-matter.

The Vril emblem became the Black Sun - a secret philosophy thousand of years old provided the foundation on which the occult practioners of the Third Reich would later build. The Black Sun symbol can be found in many Babylonian and Assyrian places of worship. They depicted the Black Sun - the godhead's inner light in the form of a cross. This was not much different from the German's Knight's Cross.

Vril Power

1871 saw the publication of The Coming Race by the English Rosicrucian, member of the House of Lords and minister of the state Edward Bulwer Lord Lytton, who personally knew one of the leading occultists of his epoch, Eliphas Levi. In this novel a young American somehow is led ever deeper into chasms in the earth until he reaches a subterranean realm in which live tall and highly educated people who had mastered a mysterious power they called "VRIL", the vital energy of the shooting grain that anyone could concentrate through his or her so-called Vril Staff and individually apply both healingly as well as destructively. Thought transfer and telekinesis were also possible, but VRIL could also serve as a weapon.

Helena Blavatski, the foundress of the Theosophical Society, describes this force as an aether stream that in 1872 could be transformed into a physical force only by the Englishman John W. Keely, an ‘initiate of Nature’, through a mechanical device, an ability that apparently had been rescinded by the spirit side due to the threatened abuse of it on Earth.

Rudolf Steiner, the initiator of the Anthroposophical Movement, at the beginning of the 20th century describes this VRIL power as ‘aether of life’ and named its abuse as the cause of the destruction of Atlantis. In his mystery plays Rudolf Steiner recalls the fate of John W. Keely in the figure of Dr. Strader. In the last scene of the last play Dr. Strader becomes the fulcrum for the New Age. To whit: Only when the laboratory table becomes the altar, when from the fruits of the materialistically dominated ‘natural science’ evolves a moral ‘Science for Nature’, the New Age may unfold.

It is said that in the 1920s the Austrian Karl Schapeller had conducted successful experiments with Vril that he called “fiery aether“, but had remained without success due to the danger of economical misuse. – This Vril Technology apparently was taken over and further developed in secret up to operability by the Reichsarbeitsgemeinschaft ‘Das kommende Deutschland’ (The Reich’s Study Group ‘The Coming Germany’) that some think is the legendary VRIL-Gesellschaft (VRIL Society). In the war years after 1940 names like V7 or V9 and the technical documents still available indicate that German flying disks were equipped with a kind of VRIL technology via an electrostatic propulsion system enabling those flying manoeuvres that we know today from original films and science fiction representations.


Shortly before World War Two, in the summer of 1938, near the two villages of Czernica and Kopaniec in the Góry Kaczawskie Mts., in Jelenia Góra Province, a strange incident occurred. Their inhabitants noticed an odd, disc-shaped UFO, which dropped from the sky. After that, the SS troops from the Jelenia Góra garrison came and brought the disc to Jelenia Góra town, where it was been examined by three Nazi German scientists: Prof. Max von Laue, Prof. Wernher von Heisenberg and Prof. Otto Hahn. Next that UFO was delivered either to the special Institute in Berlin - Dahlem, or to the top secret underground facility in the Góry Sowie Mts. The legend says that the Germans worked on the Nazi A-bomb there. Finally in 1944/45 they constructed the disc-shaped plane better known as the V-7 Vril or Haunebu , Hitler's miraculous weapon.

In other places of Poland - especially in the Polish central seaside at Ustka town, there were special test areas - especially for the German flying bombs Fi-103 A2/V-1, rockets A-4/V-2 and A-9/A-10/V-5, Urzel - which could be fired from a submerged U-boat, super-cannons V-3 Tausendfüßler (aka Schnelle Elise or Hochdruckpumpe), rocket fighters Ba-239/V-4 Natter, and AA-missiles Rheinbote, Rheintochter-1 and Rheintochter-3, which can fly with the speed of 1.4 - 5.05 Mach.

All of those weapons were unveiled by Polish intelligence of the Polish Land Army during World War Two, and MI6 and other allied intelligence services were informed.

In 1946 Soviets used the Nazi rockets in tests. They fired them towards Sweden and other Scandinavian countries. In June 1949 Russians took over a UFO before Polish witnesses' eyes. The UFO was probably made by Nazi Germans and it was shot down by Soviet AA-rocket missiles. Two pilots of the flying saucer were taken by Soviet soldiers and interrogated by the GRU officers, who finally killed them. The UFO remains were delivered to the Borne-Sulinowo Soviet Air Forces Base in Poland and transported to the Soviet Union.


Top-secret Nazi program repaired and tested ship after aliens crashed!

By Ronald Porep

INDEPENDENT experts have confirmed that Nazi scientists recovered a UFO that crashed in Germany during World War II -- and attempted to make the alien craft part of the Third Reich's evil war machine!

Evidence of an astounding project, code-named Base 211, was recently uncovered in Germany. And UFOlogists, after examining key fragments of the Nazi space ship, report that the replicated ship is remarkably similar to alien craft stored at the U.S. government's Area 51 UFO-research base.

According to the experts, the flying saucer crashed near the city of Freiburg in 1936. The Nazis retrieved the craft and transported it to a secret facility -- where German scientists repaired it and even tested its energy and propulsion systems.

Hundreds of scientists, politicians and high-ranking German officers were part of Base 211, which used members of the Luftwaffe as test pilots.

Some Allied pilots even reported brief encounters with
"Foo Fighter" flying disks, although the action-hungry aces rarely made official reports.

"No one wanted to be grounded for battle fatigue," says a historian who has seen documentation on Base 211.

He calls the Nazi UFO project "one more example of Adolf Hitler's obsession with supernatural phenomena and other-worldly forces, like the Ark of the Covenant.

"We should probably thank whoever brought this to Hitler's attention," the historian says.

This was being worked on at the same time that Germany was racing to beat the U.S. in developing the atomic bomb. It took valuable talent away from that project -- which, I believe, is one of the reasons that they lost.

Thank God they did!

Another version of the crash:

Location. Czernica, Germany (Eastern Part, now territory of Poland)

Date: Summer 1937

Time: unknown

A multicolored ball or globe-shaped UFO was seen to fall in a field (or near a field) belonging to Eva Braun’s parents (this was the future mistress of Adolf Hitler).The area was cordoned off by SS-troops from the town of
Jelenia Gora (called Hirschberg at the time). The crashed disk was transported to the Hirschberg SS base and kept under very strong guard and super top security. The disk was 7.6 meter in diameter and 3.8 meters high. It consisted of a large “overwhelming” dome, encircled by a narrow outer rim, and smaller flat dome on the bottom with a flat lower section. The top of the dome was also flat and large. The craft had 6 oval-shaped structures resembling portholes but not transparent, or devices that radiated some type of light, located near the base of the upper dome.

On the lower surface of the outer rim the craft had 12 lights. The color of the disk was a dull metal gray. There was an insignia on the dome resembling the letter “T” with 2 props on its sides. The entrance into the disk was found on the top of the upper dome. The general shape of the disk resembled that of a German soldier’s helmet with a small protrusion on the bottom. Inside the circular cabin were 3 small seats, there were control panels around the dome and 3 alien beings were found: one was dead, the other two were alive. One of the live aliens died soon after the crash, and the second live alien remained in custody for about 1.5 months and then died. The aliens were small dwarfs, about 0.9-1.0m in height, with large hairless pear-shaped heads, small dystrophic looking bodies, long narrow hands with 4 fingers, grayish skin and large dark slanted eyes. The Germans were afraid to move the disk to a more distant location, out of apprehension that it might explode during a long trip during transportation. So, a research laboratory had to be constructed nearby.

From Hirschberg the disk was removed to a more secured underground location, which most likely, was called “Der Riese” a Nazi complex in the nearby Gory Sowie mountains (now in southwest Poland), which was also a site being used for excavating for uranium ore. This complex had an extensive network of underground hangars, connected by tunnels. The bodies of the occupants and the living extraterrestrial were also moved into this complex. The alien that lived for a little bit over a month apparently supplied the Germans with some type of information and was desperately asking the Nazi medical doctors for help, but they could not help him because of the different biological structure of his body. The alien died from an unknown illness.

The origin of the crashed craft was apparently the double star system RA known on earth as 78 mu-1, Cygni, 73.1 light years in distance. Among the information given to the Germans by the surviving alien was that they had built underground bases in the polar region of the Canadian Northern Territories maybe
Baffin Island. This data was supplied to Adolf Hitler himself. But no substantial technical data was in fact provided by the alien that could had help Nazi scientists to cope with the alien technology, despite their desperate attempt to obtain such data. The surviving alien also informed the Germans that the crashed was caused by some kind of technical malfunction. The alien was kept and interrogated at the same underground installation as the disk.

Adolf Hitler and some other top Nazi figures including Wernher von Braun and Air Marshall Hermann Göring inspected the crashed disk, the alien bodies and consulted Nazi scientists in an attempt to use the object as a super secret weapon. Among those scientist involved in investigating the crashed disc were, Max Von Laue, Otto Hahn (who discovered nuclear fusion) and Werner Heisenberg. Fortunately (and unfortunately for the Nazis) the alien technology was extremely sophisticated and difficult to understand. The disc indeed inspired some Nazi scientists to construct different models of disc-shaped planes and the so-called flying bombs. This crash and possession of the extraterrestrial spacecraft was one of the factors that possibly inspired Hitler with extreme self-confidence to start World War II, hoping to use the craft as a sort of super weapon that would eventually help him conquer the world. Because of the approaching Soviet troops the whole underground complex was blown up, and the disk and the alien bodies were buried in one of the underground tunnels, the entrance was sealed with numerous huge rocks. It is apparently still there, unbeknownst to the Polish Government. The disk apparently still emanates radiation from its power plant, but because of the nearby uranium mines this source of radiation remains undetected.

The whole story seems to be weird:

The town Czernica is in Silesia which was a part of Germany until 1945. If an UFO crashed there in 1938, it was a German town. So the story of Germans seizing the crash site after the invasion is wrong. The authors writing about Haunebus never mentioned the Czernica crash.

The other story about the Czernica crash gives the date 1937 and tells about German occupation. The occupation of Poland started 1939. Even if the Czernica crash took place in a Polish town the date is wrong. The family of Eva Braun was living in Munich for generations. Eva Braun´s father was a teacher for joinery. It is very unlikely and nowhere documented that he owned land far away in Silesia.


The New NAZI ET Lie
By Tim Matthews

The most dangerous and insidious development in modern-day UFO research are the attempts currently being undertaken by a small group of researchers to shore up the extra-terrestrial hypothesis by invoking a number of dangerous right-wing and occult theories.

These relate to the supposed activities of the "Vril" society who, it is claimed, were responsible for imparting secret and magical knowledge to the Nazis from the late 1930s onwards. This made its' way into a number of secret technologies including the flying saucer. The occultists also appear to be claiming that extra-terrestrial knowledge was imparted to this group of Nazi losers...a worrying claim to say the least...

A forthcoming edition of 'UFO Magazine' (UK) is set to present 'evidence' that an ET craft crashed in Poland and was subsequently recovered by the Nazis and back-engineered no doubt into 'foo fighters' and hypersonic saucers. There appears to be no substantiation at all to support any of this evidence whereas both myself and other researchers approaching this question from an entirely factual and documentary basis have discovered the actual truth of the matter; - German circular wing aircraft were under development although not advanced in any accepted meaning of the word by 1945.

They were tested and flown at a BMW facility near Breslau in early 1945 (the date 14th Feb is often give but there seems to be little evidence to support this claim) and film was taken of the test flight where the 'saucer' lifted off the ground and flew for a few minutes before landing safely.

It was flown by Flugkapitän Rudolf Schriever who subsequently claimed in newspaper interviews to have been involved in this fledgling German project. Schriever worked for the Heinkel company and developed an interest in Vertical Take-Off and Landing technology from 1940. The first test-flight, of the "V3" was in 1943.

The designation "V" refers to "Versuchs" which translates into "experimental". V has NOTHING to do with Vril!

The most intriguing part of this project was the development of the radial-flow engine featured in the USAF-ATIC-WADC Technical Document dated 15th Feb.1955 relating to 'Project Silver Bug' - the real AVRO disc and not to be confused with the miserable Avrocar.

Dr. Richard Walter Miethe and many other German technical specialists - whose work was entirely unrelated to any supposed 'occult' nonsense - were transported to the USA under the terms of Operation Paperclip in 1945/6. Secretary to the USAF Alexander Flax admitted that Miethe had worked in the USA.

The discs that Miethe subsequently worked on and influenced used muffled jet engines and were able to hover as well as reach high speeds.

Although much of the contractor work was undertaken in Canada at AV Roe and Company the testing and evaluation was undertaken at Papoose Lake until at least the 1970s. There is little evidence to suggest that the work continued at this facility although we understand that the programme was also situated at Holloman AFB for a while.

The construction of this new Nazi-ET myth is ultimately impossible to disprove because there is no evidence - if you see what I mean. A writer, one Robert Konstanty (does anyone know who this is) is making totally unverifiable claims.

Most interestingly, one version of this Nazi-ET myth featured in an article written by a Mr. Bolnar for 'Alien Encounters' magazine provided no evidence beyond unnamed sources and speculation.

He and other seem to be claiming that the 'alien craft' (?) 'crashed' in Poland in 1938. The Germans didn't invade until 1939 so why and how did they have the good fortune to get hold of it....?

What does this tell us about some elements of the UFO community?

They will believe almost anything as long as it supports their ET contact beliefs and wishes.

They are propping up a dangerous Nazi occult myth most likely to encourage right-wing extremism within Ufology (Ernst Zündel alias 'Christof/Mattern Friedrich' is the obvious example of a Nazi who made a great deal of money from the sales of this Nazi saucer book in the late 1970s and early 1980s).

It says something about the 'death of Roswell' and the many questions and problems related to it that pretty much rule out an ET crash retrieval - and look how 'witnesses' suddenly appeared (and remembered what they were doing in July 1947 in great detail) on the scene when the media became interested....

I suggest that we must try and expose this kind of propaganda for that is what it is - at all costs.

My colleague Bill Rose spoke to people formerly involved in the German disc programme and there is no suggestion that any high performance craft was built or flown even though there were tremendous advances in all manner of aviation made by German scientists. It was not until much later on that a German influence was felt in terms of advanced technology aircraft which is what we might expect. One of the reasons that we cannot learn more about Miethe and co is not, as one UK skeptic has suggested , because they 'didn't exist' but entirely because they did and that certain of them had been involved in horrific war crimes..This dirty little secret has yet to be realised by the public and their governments appear to want to do very little to educate them on the subject of the wheeling and dealing that took place in order to gain Nazi technological assets after 1945.

USP # 2,431,293 (11-18-47)
Airplane of Low Aspect Ratio
Zimmermann, Charles H.

In the USA at the time the V-173 that became the XF5U-1 was apparently more successful than its' German counterparts and in fact Schriever was influences by Zimmerrman (not an alien nor an occultist) who worked closely with the US Navy and Chance-Vought during the war to get his advanced STOL 'flying pancake' in the air - with much success.

All the evidence that I have got strongly suggests to both myself and the others associated with our research that it was indeed the US Navy (Engineering Division) who were most responsible for the early postwar sightings of metallic discs which, in most cases, were operating well within the boundaries of terrestrial technology. A gas turbine powered XF5U-1, that US AIR 100-203-79 suggest was operational in 1947/8, would, according to several aviation writers have been able to fly at very low speeds and would have had a flight envelope of between 0-550mph....

A 'Project Sign' document in my possession indicates that the USAF Intelligence people knew about tests of low aspect ratio aircraft involved in 'boundary layer experiments' and that the aircraft was built by none other than Chance-Vought.

Occasionally, new information on classified aircraft forces the UFO community to look again at it's underlying raison d'être - the theory of ET-human contact.

In order to shore this theory up some researchers have reached and are reaching into the depths of Twentieth Century horror to create a Nazi-ET lie.......

UFO MAG Nazi Nonsense?

Tim Matthews

October 22, 1998

Yes, the new 'UFO Magazine' (UK) is on the stands (hidden at the back where sensible people will be able to avoid it). One article - UFO crash at Czernia - is a hilarious brand of Nazi pseudo history, factual inaccuracy and a desperate attempt to shore up the 'ET recovered' technology myth. Graham Birdsall seems to have completely lost his sense of objectivity This kind of thing serves only those who wish to distort the truth about flying disc technologies. All I can say is that I hope the spooks pay well for such marvellous disinformation..

The story has it that a UFO 'crashed' in Poland on land owned by Eva Braun's parents no 1937. So far so bad but what else? It was recovered - not by the Polish cavalry, at this stage still on horseback, but by a detachment of Waffen SS troops! 18 months before Gleiwitz and the subsequent invasion of
Poland by Hitler's troopsIn Poland the 'recovered UFO' taken by (non-existent SS troops) was no doubt back engineered and converted by means unknown into a flying disc. All this in three years and Rudolf Schriever must have lied when he claimed to have adapted his VTOL disc idea from those of William Horton Zimmerman in the USA. Even more unusually, he employed jet engines which, although in their infancy were no match for alien hardware no doubt deciphered via telepathy.

ET and Hitler link up? Only in your wildest dreams people. The author of this terrible article - a disgrace to Ufology in fact - then finishes off the piece with a load of old (very old and very sad) crap about "Vril", "Haunebu" discs etc. etc. As I pointed out the "V" designation relates to "Versuchs" - the German word for experimental. Some time ago I predicted the new Nazi-ET lie; and here it is - sadly lacking in reality or evidence.....


I predicted this Nazi/occult stuff is the fall back position for those unhappy and/or unconvinced by the ever-so-shaky Roswell case. It is desperate stuff totally lacking in any evidence and entirely without a factual basis. But idiots will believe it and idiots will buy it. Sales of Peter Moons' ridiculous 'Black Sun' Nazi/occult/Mountauk right-wing propaganda may even be encouraged as a result. This nonsense will not deter us from seeking both truth and reality.

~Tim Matthews
October 22, 1998

PS: I note an even bigger mistake in the 'Czernia' article featured in UFO Magazine (UK). The Waffen SS was not even formed until 2nd March 1940. So what was it doing in Poland three years before? Time travel? A quick check on the Internet was all it took to find this out..

Another Disc:

In July of 1937, the Nazi party's elite, such as Hitler and Göring, began sending out special teams of their elite forces. These teams were to collect all kinds of supernatural, scientific and religious items. Primarily items dealing with the supernatural, occult and the fringe sciences. During the search for Noah's Ark, along the borders of Turkey and Persia in the mountain range of Arafat, the team was exposed to a story by some of the older members of a village near the Tigris River. The story was that 200 generations ago a strange shiny house had fallen from the sky, making such a noise that it woke everyone in the village.

Sometime later, a man traveling from one village to the other came across this object. He said it sang, was warm to the touch, had a vile odor and looked and felt like the trading material used by the men of the stone hats. The story was reported back, by the investigating team, to Germany. One month later two more teams arrived. One being a group of scientists that were the forerunners of the special weapons division of Hitler's Nazi war machine. This group of men set out to find this house. They found it all right. It was the first retrieval of an extra terrestrial ship. The disc was 25 meters in diameter, 8 meters in height. The ship was solid with no apparent entrance, and surprisingly responsive to exterior forces, i.e. it seemed to float several meters above the ground, and required little effort to move it.

In December of 1938 the disk was brought into the hands of Germany's top scientists to a location north of Munich. In the surrounding mountains an old salt mine was converted into a facility to study and reproduce, if at all possible, the craft. It had been determined earlier that this ship was not a top secret device of any other nation on Earth. The Nazi scientists had amazing success dissecting and understanding the ship and its contents. Until July of 1941, when one of their scientists managed to defect to the United States, no other nation knew what Hitler had, and what he'd been doing with it.

United States Military Intelligence, under the code name Oz, successfully captured the Nazi facility containing the disc. The disc was shipped back to the US, narrowly missing USSR troops in their attempts to capture as much as they could of secret Nazi treasures and sciences. The USSR was to find out about the ship within six months, presumably from the German scientists they had captured.

And yet Another:

The Germans made a treaty in 1941 with the Ugha Mongulala, a South American tribe, that asked them for aid against intruder. Their chronicles purport that 15,000 years ago the Gods came to earth and disappeared again 12,000 years ago. They left behind a flight disk in the city of Unter-Akakor. It is speculated about whether the German found this flight disk and knew to use it to build their own.


The area is known to its residents as Malopolska ["Little Poland"], and it's the site of one of the stranger mysteries of World War II.

Jordanow, the Beskidy Mountains and the entire region between Krakow and the alpine-resort community of Zakopane (on what is now the border between Poland and Slovakia) fell to the Nazis in the early days of the war. On September 6, 1939, the German 14th Army, under Field Marshal Wilhelm von List, captured Zakopane and Jordanow. Within a week, for reasons never explained, the area was placed under the direct control of the SS. The area remained under Nazi rule until the arrival of Soviet Russian forces in January 1945.

In 1994, Polish author Robert K. Lesniakiewicz "interviewed former soldiers of the Armia Krajowa [Polish for "Homeland Army"] who had fought the Germans until January 1945. They saw the SS mining for uranium oxide" in the Beskidy Mountains near Jordanow. "The Zarnowka and Grzechynia buildings and bunkers were built by local peasants and Russian, Ukrainian and Italian P.O.W.s. My mother-in-law was a prisoner in Grzechniya in 1943. They were guarded at first by SS men and at the end of the war by Wehrmacht [German Army] soldiers." [After Benito Mussolini was ousted in September 1943, Italy turned against her ally, the Third Reich. The Italian P.O.W.s at Jordanow were troops loyal to Marshal Pietro Badoglio.]

"All of the local people (civilians) were sent to the concentration camps at Oswiecim and Oswiecim-Brzezinka [better known by their German names, Auschwitz and Auschwitz-Birkenau], west of Krakow," Lesniakiewicz writes. The SS and, in particular, their leader, Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler, took a keen interest in Jordanow and its environs. Numerous uranium oxide mines were opened and worked between April 1940 and November 1944. Himmler also tested several Nazi "wonder weapons" in the region.

"Grzechynia is a village 5 kilometers (3 miles) from Zawoja," Lesniakiewicz reported, "The Nazis had a base for developing the V-3 [rocket], the Tausendfüssler )also known as schnelle Elise or the Hochdruckpumpe), a 152-millimeter supercannon that could propel three-meter-long (10-foot) projectiles to distances of 45 to 50 kilometers (27 to 30 miles). The Germans fired them at a test range at Przezeck Krowiarki ("pass") towards the Tatra Mountains. Their long-term objective was to bombard London with these big cannons, from the French village of Mimoyeques. The Allies destroyed the V-3 base there."

The SS secret projects around Jordanow soon drew the attention of their enemies. "During World War II, the Beskidy Mountains were controlled by the right-wing Armia Krajowa and the left-wing Armia Ludowa [Polish for "People's Army] Also operating there were Soviet parachute troops of the OSNAZ (Osobyennoye Naznachenye, Russian for "Special Task Forces") of the NKVD, commanded by NKVD Captain Alexei Lotov."

According to the Polish resistance fighters, "They also observed Russian geologists and NKVD (later the KGB) officials, who penetrated these mountains in October 1956. They did not find any uranium ore." [Conventional World War II history teaches that Hitler's nuclear research program was based in Norway. The processing plant was destroyed in an Allied air raid in 1943. Yet here was the SS, mining uranium oxide by the ton in southern Poland throughout the war. The ore is processed into enriched, "weapons-grade" uranium. What became of all that uranium?]

"Himmler visited Zakopane twice: once in the winter of 1939-1940, when he met there with high-ranking NKVD officials," and again in 1943. During his second visit to the mountain resort city, Himmler "himself led the extermination of all the Polish and Jewish inhabitants of the Beskidy Maly area. All of the local people were sent to the concentration camps."

Apparently, Himmler had sent the SS to Jordanow on a "magickal mission."

According to local legend, there is an entrance to Agharta, or Interterra [also known as the "Underground World"], placed on the southwestern slope of Mount Babia Gora (elevation 1,725 meters or 5,692 feet)," just across the border in Slovakia." Himmler sent several dozen speleological expeditions to the Tatra Mountains and the Beskidy Mountains, as well as to the Slovakian, Czech and Hungarian mountains. He was especially interested in the Domica-Baradla Cave in the Slovakian-Hungarian borderland. He hoped to find the entrance to Shamballah, but he did not do it.

The SS searched for the entrance to Agharta on Mount Babia Gora and at the Half-Moon Cave in Byelanskye Tatra." However, long before he became the Reichsführer-SS and the self-styled "Lord of Atlantis," Himmler was interested in the Jordanow region and its local folk tales of a passage to "the Underground World."

In 1892, the Polish architect Stanislaw Witkiewicz purchased a summer home in Zakopane, 40 kilometers (25 miles) south of Jordanow, then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. With his friend, the composer Karol Szymanowski, Witkiewicz founded a writers' and artists' colony. The group, which dabbled in theosophy, soon attracted a writer from Vienna, Dr. Friedrich Wichtl.

Dr. Wichtl was an occultist who specialized in Masonic lore and "world conspiracy" theories. He was a frequent visitor to Villa Koliba, the colony's meeting place in Zakopane, and to Lake Morskie Oko. After the collapse of Austria-Hungary in 1918 at the end of World War I, Dr. Wichtl wrote a best-selling book entitled Weltfreimaurerei, Weltrevolution, Weltrepublik [World Freemasonry, World Revolution, World Republic]. Himmler, then a military cadet convalescing after a serious stomach illness, read Dr. Wichtl's book in 1919, and it sparked his interest in the occult.

It is possible that Himmler may have met his mentor, Dr. Wichtl, six years earlier, when he was a young teenager. In the summer of 1913, the future-Reichsführer's father, Dr. Gebhard Himmler, was appointed vice-principal of the Gymnasium (high school) in Landshut. The elder Himmler celebrated this prestigious appointment by taking his wife and three sons, including 13-year-old Heinrich, on a tour of Austria-Hungary. The family spent some time in Zakopane and, as was their custom, went swimming on hot August days in Lake Morskie Oko. Dr. Wichtl also was in Zakopane at that time. Although they both shared a vivid interest in "the Underground World," Himmler's diary makes no mention of any meeting with Dr. Wichtl.

(See the following books: Wonderland: Alien Technologies in the Third Reich, by Dr. Milos Jesensky and Robert K. Lesniakiewicz, Usti nad Larem, Warsaw, 2001; Project Tatra, by Robert K. Lesniakiewicz, Krakow, 2002; Himmler, by Peter Padfield, MJF Books, New York, N.Y. 1990; and The Occult Roots of Nazism, by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke, New York University Press, New York, N.Y., 1992.

Der Riese", ("The Giant" in English), is located in the"Gory Sowie" or Owl Mountains of modern-day Poland

It consisted of seven underground complexes which concerned themselves with the mining, refining, research and development of uranium
both forenergy producing machines and weapons of war. The tunnels of the larger complexes are almost two miles in length.

~Robert Lesniakiewicz, a Polish engineer and a member of the research group responsible for opening, exploring and mapping of "Der Riese".



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